Rita Black: Intuition is like your brain's secret superhero making split second decisions based on a wealth of past experiences and information. It's that inner voice guiding you when you least expect it. But so often our own natural innate intuition is covered up by critical self thinking and self-doubt and stress. We don't make choices from that wise place within. We second guess ourselves and often feel like, how did I end up here? Today's Thin Thinking guest, Nicole Tsong is gonna help us find the path back into finding our own inborn intuition, to hear it, to trust it, and to nurture it. So listen to your gut and come on in.

Rita Black: Did you know that our struggle with weight doesn't start with the food on your plate or get fixed in the gym? 80% of our weight struggle is mental. That's right. The key to unlocking long-term weight release and management begins in your mind. Hi there, I'm Rita Black. I'm a clinical hypnotherapist weight loss expert, bestselling author, and the creator of the Shift Weight Mastery Process. And not only have I helped thousands of people over the past 20 years achieve long-term weight mastery, I am also a former weight struggler, carb addict and binge eater. And after two decades of failed diets and fad weight loss programs, I lost 40 pounds with the help of hypnosis. Not only did I release all that weight, I have kept it off for 25 years. Enter the Thin Thinking Podcast where you too will learn how to remove the mental roadblocks that keep you struggling. I'll give you the thin thinking tools, skills and insights to help you develop the mindset you need, not only to achieve your ideal weight, but to stay there long-term and live your best life.

Rita Black: Hello, come on in and welcome back. Those of you coming back from the holidays, welcome back and Black Friday everybody. Welcome back from the Shopping Frenzy. I hope you got some great deals and are all ready for the upcoming holiday season. As far as presents go, I haven't even begun to think about presents. I was very busy over the weekend. My kids were both here and I was just trying to take advantage of being with them and being present and not not buying presents. So we are all rapidly though heading into December and the holiday crunch time and the hustle and bustle and it's easy in this time to lose touch with ourselves and our own inner voice.

Rita Black: That voice of knowing in stressful times like this upcoming month, we push that voice down and often listen instead to that inner critic and we start to feel like our holidays are having us versus enjoying the holidays. And that is why you are gonna love my conversation today with Nicole Tsong who is gonna give us some guidance on intuition, slowing down and finding that true voice of knowing within. Nicole has been a guest on the Thin Thinking podcast before, so hopefully those of you who have heard her and I talk before you're in for another treat. Nicole is the host of the School of Self-Worth podcast and a bestselling author and she helps high achieving career women release perfectionism, become fluent in the language of intuition and step into their purposeful life. The founder of Nicole's Tsong Coaching, she reached hundreds of thousands of readers as the former fit for life columnist for the Seattle Times.

Rita Black: She is an award-winning journalist and for three years taught yoga at the White House Easter egg roll during the Obama administration. She has been featured on the nationally syndicated show, the list on Good Morning Washington, in Washington DC, on your California life in Sacramento, and featured multiple times on New Day Northwest on King five TV in Seattle. Yay. I remember watching King five TV in Seattle when I lived there and she lives in Seattle where you can find her hiking on weekends with her dog and with her husband. Welcome Nicole.

Rita Black: Hey there Nicole. Welcome to the Thin Thinking Podcast. It's really nice to have you back here.

Nicole Tsong: Thank you so much for having me again, Rita. I'm so joyful. It's so joyful to be here with you.

Rita Black: Yeah, it's, you know, I remember our last conversation, it was so good, but some new audience members may not know who you are, so please tell them who you are and what you do, how you help people.

Nicole Tsong: Yeah, so I'm Nicole Tsong and I help high achieving career woman release perfectionism so they can unlock intuition and step into a life of purpose. And I support women in really feeling that way, feeling connected and like they know really why they're here and that they have a roadmap to that direction.

Rita Black: So exciting. I love that. I think too, even beyond high achieving career women, which definitely is important, I think just women finding their purpose and alignment is so important because I have a lot of people at the height of their career who are in my world, but also people who are like heading out of career, but like then they're heading into that second piece of their life where they're, you know, creating something new. And I think that I feel like is a huge piece of stepping into that piece called intuition. So if you had to say what intuition is, you know, for somebody out in the audience who may well, well what exactly is intuition? What would you say that that is?

Nicole Tsong: Yeah, I think it's important actually to understand it. So your intuition is an internal guidance system that we all are born with and we all have that is here to help you navigate the direction of your life and what you're doing. And it's built in, it's like your own magic eight ball, is how I think of it. Like you can ask it questions, it will give you answers, and then it really allows you to have some guidance for yourself when you're making big decisions and small decisions.

Rita Black: Hmm. I definitely know that. And how do you tell the difference like between like rational logical thinking and intuition? Like how would you separate those two or define those two differently?

Nicole Tsong: That's such a good question because I have a lot of very logical people in my community as well and I come from that place, you know, like I was a journalist before and I understand what it's like to like analyze and want all the information. And the distinction that's really important is when your intuition is speaking, it speaks pretty softly, pretty clearly. It doesn't really have a whole back and forth conversation. So if you're in a back and forth conversation in your mind it's typically with, you know, your inner critic, you can call it your, I think of it as your lower personality, but just something that's coming in. And it's usually with a lot of questioning, a lot of self-doubt and a lot of fear can also come in that conversation. And so when that is the conversation, and this is also a place where we often feel very reactive, we feel very stressed, we feel very anxious.

Nicole Tsong: And so if you're in like a decision making process and at night you're just like spinning out and you're Google searching and you're asking your friends and you're wondering what to do, that is definitely not your intuition. That is you being in that logical mind, that rational mind thinking you need to know all the answers. Whereas when you're in your intuition it just speaks and you're just like, you know the answer whether you can follow, it's a whole different thing that we can talk about, but it's more around, it just gives you these clues into your life and then your job is to say, okay, like now I'm going to listen and follow what it says.

Rita Black: Would you say, I mean I'm really curious about this because do you feel like intuition is more of a feeling than you know, sometimes when you have people who call that the gut feeling like it just had a gut feeling? Would you call that intuition? So like if you meet somebody or if you're trying to, you know, if you are like, well your rational mind makes one decision, like okay, I should do plan A, but then you've got that feeling in your gut like no, plan B is probably the better way to go. You know? Would you call that intuition or would you call that something else?

Nicole Tsong: Such a good question. I say it depends because if you are, I have experienced this a lot with people where they have this gut reaction and this can happen. Let's take dating as an example. So like dating, I think all the time you can have like a gut reaction, but that gut reaction might come from a past experience. Like you had an experience with somebody else who is similar to the current person you're dating and then you are associating them together and that's not actually the correct information. And so sometimes when people tell me they haven't got hit, I'm like, okay, like that's useful to know and I actually think your intuition can really inform you at certain times. Like I've had that happen in relationship before and it wasn't that I associated that person. I actually, you know, like six weeks into dating someone, I had this moment where I was like, you know, he's really not it.

Nicole Tsong: And then like three years in a relationship later two years post breakup, like back and forth, all those things, I was like, oh yeah, I did know. So sometimes it is like that and you have to really be cautious of the reaction. You know? Sometimes to me when people tell me it's a gut hit and I'm like, okay great. Yes. And is it related to a past experience or is it truly your intuition? So I'm always kind of cautious around both the language and the experience of it and working people to be in a place where we're more regulated in our nervous systems, we're more grounded, we're more clear because then that's gonna give you information you can really use versus kind of, you know, going back and forth and debating whether what you heard was the correct thing.

Rita Black: Okay, I get that. That's more clear. So is intuition though then something that is a combination? I mean do you feel like it's this inner wisdom that we have innately or is it cultivated over time? Like from just living your life and having experiences and you know what I mean?

Nicole Tsong: Yeah, that's such a good question. I mean, intuition is innate to everybody. I will say that like we all have it, it's a system that's built in, you know, 'cause like your car like has cruise control built in. Like it is just actually built in. The question is whether you use it and you know how to use it. And so for some people I would say that life doesn't necessarily teach you how to use it. And that's more because of the nature of like the life we live. Like your phone and social media are certainly actually not teaching you to use your intuition. Like despite the best, you know, and I do this too, like I put out posts on it, but it's not actually teaching you legitimate connection to your intuition society. I mean I did not learn anything I know about intuition from school, like any of the schools and I went to good schools but they did not teach me anything about intuition.

Nicole Tsong: So I would say that life often what happens is like life piles up on you and actually blocks you. And like that's something I teach too. It's like how do you clear the blocks that are keeping you from accessing your intuition? And everybody is innately intuitive and can develop it. Like you can work on it and you can tune it up. So I kind of think of it like if you were trying to walk somewhere and you also had the option to ride a bike, riding the bike is faster, riding your intuition is like riding the bike. But if you leave the bike sitting around and it gets rusty and the chain's all messed up and there's no oil, like it's not gonna go very quickly and actually it might not work at all. And so your job is to do the things that are gonna help the bike tune up and then when you wanna go a certain direction you can get their way quicker.

Rita Black: Wow, that's such a great analogy. So how do you know or how would you know that you're not following your intuition?

Nicole Tsong: Well this is when you're in the overthinking place, I feel like is the best example of knowing when you're not in your intuition. So I'll give you my own personal example on this one. So I was a journalist for many years and when I was a journalist, like I felt really like I was climbing the ladder and I really didn't know anything else. Like I was like, I'm just doing what I'm supposed to. I'm gonna follow the ladder that's laid out here. And then I had a moment where I was covering Catholic sex abuse, which was like a very prestigious thing to have. I was really young, I was put on this big project. And so I felt like really proud of myself even though it was a very difficult subject as you can imagine. And then the project came out and we won a bunch of awards and I felt like so good.

Nicole Tsong: Like I was like, oh yeah, like I'm doing the work I'm supposed to be doing in this life. And then a year after this all began, one of my sources died by suicide. And in that moment, and I would say this is probably a combination, there was the reaction which was very deep and dark and challenging as you might imagine going through that experience. But then there was also the intuitive voice that was kind of like, Hey Nicole, this isn't it. And that's it. It was like really simple. It was really clear like this isn't it? And I went on for seven more years to try to make journalism work. Like I covered senate races, I covered Congress and then I went down, I came to the Seattle Times in Seattle where I live now, and my friends always joked I went from the senate to covering lamps because I literally covered home decor.

Nicole Tsong: 'Cause I was like, this was like the safe way to try to still be a journalist. And I did features for a long time and then the paper was going through layoffs. So they moved me back into the newsroom and then I was kind of re-traumatized over my whole experience that I'd had before. And so in that experience then I was really clear like I needed to figure out how to leave. And by that point I was doing a lot of yoga practices and I was actually going to yoga teacher training and I was starting to understand that connection to myself through regulating my nervous system through my body was teaching me to start to learn to listen to my intuition. And so at that time, that's when I followed it and I actually left the paper. And so it's a long way of saying that when we're in this override or reaction, you tend to know it.

Nicole Tsong: Like you feel the suffering, like you feel the disconnect from who you are. You know? You're not on exactly the right path, but it doesn't seem bad. Like it didn't seem wrong when I was covering lamps. Like I enjoyed it to some degree. I was like still writing and I was working for a big metropolitan paper, but there was a part of me that knew that that was not where I needed to be. Like it was time for me to figure out something else, but it felt really overwhelming, like really challenging to be like, how am I gonna leave journalism? Like journalism meant for me at that time was like supposed to be a 30 year career, spend my life like writing and serving. And here I was being like, I'm gonna figure out how to make a leap and actually leave it. But I did ultimately listen to it and then leave to go teach yoga at that time.

Rita Black: Right. Wow. So, and and that's interesting. I wanna ask you another question, but I I did wanna say that that leap right, that leap for probably a lot of people who maybe have an intuitive sense that they're not happy or they're in a situation where they, you know, their intuition is speaking to them, but there's that fear because usually what we're talking about, like you said, relationships, you're in a relationship and your intuition is saying this isn't right. But what do you do when you're in a relationship for a number of years and you're stuck or you're, and I'm not asking you to the the question to answer that because that that's too big of, but there's that, do you find that when you're working with people and their intuition is speaking to them, that that is the biggest challenge? It's not like, yes you can start to tune into your intuition, but then how do you walk across that bridge of from making that decision to leave the times or leave a relationship and then out into empty space? Like you said, well you had a place to go, you had your yoga training and and your career there. But that seems like well that's probably part of what you do to help people, right?

Nicole Tsong: Yes, it is. Well, lemme give you an example. One of my clients, Megan, 'cause she was in this situation, she came to work with me and her intuition had been like, leave her job. And I was like, okay. There was some part of it though I could tell for her it wasn't quite time. She needed to, she needed to go, but she didn't need to leave right then. And so we actually were in a practice of patients and this is where your intuition is always gonna guide you to like, what is the thing you need to do right now? And with her, she actually had to wait for a little while and she was developing her own business at the time and I said, you're just gonna know when it's time to go. And she was like kind of stressed about it and feeling intensely about it, but then she was like, okay.

Nicole Tsong: And like we worked on it and then all of a sudden there was this very clear moment like with her husband where something happened with his job and it was super clear and then she was like, oh, it's time. And it was like so easy. Like there was no stress. She was just like, okay, we gotta go. It's time to go. And then she just gave notice and moved on, you know, and it is like that 'cause sometimes people get all anxious and worked up and they're like, I need to quit this job. But it's still reaction. Like they're still in that place of like, I can't take it anymore. And I'm like, I never want my clients to leave anything out of reaction because that's not gonna serve them and it's not gonna help them build that intuitive sense. I always want them to get themselves placed in like a really good grounded place. And then once they're grounded, now they can start to sense and feel. And this is where that does start to come in sense and feel what's the right timing, what works best, and then leave like with feeling peace and ease and joy, which is actually really what your intuition wants. It wants you to feel spacious, it wants you to be doing things that are challenging but not to do it from a place of like a total freakout.

Rita Black: Right. That makes sense. So how are, like if you're wanting to develop your intuition more, like what are some of the first steps that you would take?

Nicole Tsong: Yeah, I would say regulation of the nervous system is really important because all of us, like this is just no exception. Like all of us these days are so dysregulated with our phones and the pings and the, you know, the constant alerts and especially if you all recall that I spoke about boundaries last time. If you're feeling really challenged with boundaries at nighttime with like your phone or with work, that is the first place to start to look. Because if you are just never off your phone, if you're looking at it first thing in the morning and you're not taking any space or time to get your body into a present settled state, you're gonna feel very challenged to even start to understand that distinction between intuition and overthinking. So for all of my people, that's the first place we go is really like, okay, what is a practice that every single day that you can start to do so that you feel grounded and clear and if you're having trouble doing it, like really bringing in the accountability for that to be part of your life.

Nicole Tsong: And like, and I think this is true of all of us, like you and me included Rita because I'm like, I'm on TikTok and Instagram and they are addicting. You know, like that's the goal. Like they're literally designed to keep you on there. So are you creating parameters for yourself in your life that you are prioritizing being clean and clear, separate from your devices, being present with people you love. You know, doing something that takes down that intensity you're feeling every single day and getting grounded and clear. 'cause If you're not there, your intuition's gonna be way far down the road. But the sooner you can do that, the faster you'll start to really start to get into a place of like, oh, I think I might hear it on occasion or understand when I can hear it.

Rita Black: Yeah. Okay. Thanks. That's really great. So that's step one is regulating your nervous system or, and what benefits do people see from working on their intuition? Like what are some things that get out of this work?

Nicole Tsong: Oh, I love this because I feel like there's so many surprising benefits that people totally underestimate, which is actually the best part of intuition. I mean, it literally is like that walking or riding a bike, it is just faster. Like you can do things faster during the day. Like you're not spending time ruminating or wondering or questioning your choices. You're really clear. You're like, okay, my intuition led me here and I just follow it. And then I don't have to wonder if all the other ones were a good choice or not. You're just really clear from your intuitive space so you have way more time. Like, I have so much more time in my day 'cause I follow my intuition and if my intuition is like time to shut down for the day, I am like I shut down for the day. And like that's, that's it.

Nicole Tsong: It's over. And so that is like, I think the biggest benefit is really that time space because I find for most people the lack of productivity is because they're not following their intuition. They're just, you know, busy work or doing what everybody else wants rather than listening for what's the highest priority, what's the timing for them. So that's one of my favorite ones. 'cause I think people don't think about that one enough or they don't know enough about it to realize that that can, yeah, like that can actually be, it's like the best productivity tool out there, honestly. So that's one of the surprising benefits. I also think one of the other surprising benefits is just like you have way more peace and calm over decision making because you're just not worried again. Like you're not questioning yourself. Like you're just like, hey, like that's the right choice.

Nicole Tsong: And once you're clear you just move on. Yeah. And I don't know if I have, I can give you another example that I think is, I like examples 'cause I think it's really helpful. So a few weeks ago I was leading a retreat to go to the big island in Hawaii. And if you've ever led a retreat, I don't know where you are, the listenerships or gone on one, like, you know, there's a lot of effort and energy that goes on to leading a retreat. Oh yeah. And so I had booked this retreat in February and this is now September. So six days before I was supposed to go, I get this funny email that says, Hey, like you should really look into your retreat center. There's some strange stuff going on. And I was like, okay, interesting email to receive a few days before.

Nicole Tsong: And I hadn't actually heard from the retreat center at the time. And so I eventually took me all day, got in touch with the retreat center and they're like, you're right. They were just having some major legal disputes going on. And they're like, you're right, we can host you, but it's not ideal and so we're gonna refer you to another retreat center down the road. And I'm like, okay. Like I had 10 women flying from all over the country to the big island of Hawaii. They all had their flights, they had all taken a full week off of work who were all pretty much depending on me. And I was like, this feels a little bit intense, but okay. And my intuition was like, you need to let this retreat center go. So I asked for the refund that night and went to bed six days before my retreat with no retreat center.

Nicole Tsong: Yeah. And so then the next day I had to really trust, but I, my intuition was like, you're gonna get something, like don't worry about it. But I also didn't spend the next day researching every possible retreat center on the big island. I had heard from a couple. And so I was like, I'm just gonna trust that one of these is actually really gonna work out. And so I waited and then it took all day and again, felt like a very long time. I'll say that. I felt very much like, all right, this is a real test in my intuition, Nicole, but like, okay, hold, hold this. You can do it, you can do it. And then that afternoon I heard from the retreat center they referred me to and they said, we have enough room for you guys, we would love, you know, like let's get on the phone and talk. And so two days later I signed the contract for them and then we all went to this new retreat center on that coming Sunday.

Rita Black: Wow.

Nicole Tsong: It was pretty intense. Yeah. So I'm like giving it as an example because I think sometimes we think that, you know, it can be like that, you know, like there's challenges like that that come in. And I didn't sit around being like, why is this happening to me? Because it could have been very easy to go to that place, but instead being like, okay, there's something for me to figure out here and I really need to trust that I'm supposed to go, I'm supposed to bring these women there. And then we had just like a really special experience. Like it was a really amazing week.

Rita Black: Oh, that sounds fantastic.

Nicole Tsong: Yeah.

Rita Black: Yeah. I could have really used some intuition. I think I used a little intuition. We just bought a car and that was a really hard process. It was a used car. So we were like, we were looking, we are a CarMax and we're looking at like all these different, I was like, I feel like this is not the right car.

Nicole Tsong: Totally.

Rita Black: I mean literally. And my husband was like, why not? This is the great car all wheel drive. I was like, no, this is not a regular. And then we get in the car that we have now and it was, it did feel good. So that did feel good. And I remember buying our house A bazillion years ago. 'cause our house, we've been in it for 30 years, but I remember looking at a lot of houses and then you walk in and you're like, oh yeah, this is home. I feel like that's intuition.

Nicole Tsong: Yeah, I do, I think so too. Like sometimes you just have that felt sense, right? You're just like, this is right.

Rita Black: Yes.

Nicole Tsong: And, and then you just know. And I think that that's important 'cause we want to strengthen those times where you're like, yes, I do know. Because if you can strengthen the times where you did know and then remember that that can actually happen way more frequently than you expect. Like that's one of the things because you know, in that example of Hawaii, like that was a pretty peak stress experience as you might imagine. Yes. And I really had to rely on every other time where I knew how things would go to trust that that things would be okay then too. You know, like if I really could say, okay, like I'm gonna know when the right place is there, I'm gonna know what to do. And so I just trusted that I would know. And as soon as that retreat center got back to me and I talked to the person, I was like, oh yeah, this is totally gonna work. We'll be fine.

Rita Black: I can see that this would be just so helpful. I mean you're, as you're talking, I'm listening, and I'm thinking about as I go through my day and those decisions you just have to make with business, with relationships, any of those things. And it is as true that when you have that you know, as I've gotten older, I've tuned in and I've been in therapy and, and my therapist is very into intuition. And so we do work on that as well. And that ability to just take that breath and go, yes, this is right, and just go with it. It is such a, you live in a different space. You live in a different it is not without stress, but it's just that you trust that aspect of you, that you, that internal guiding system, whatever you wanna call it, that intuition that it's gonna get you where you need to be. That so it is, it's, it is, it's, I like the way you describe it though. That's very helpful. And I can see how it would help a lot of people.

Rita Black: Now I know you have something like if people are interested, I'm like, oh yeah, I wanna develop this. So Nicole, you have a secret podcast coming up. Tell me, tell us about that, 'cause I think a lot of our listeners might be interested in tuning in.

Nicole Tsong: Yes. So I'm releasing a secret private podcast called The Language of Intuition. And it's all about becoming fluent in the language of intuition. So for you to actually start to understand the steps that it takes that we've talked about here, but it encapsulates it even more. And then all you have to do is subscribe to it and then you'll get all the audios and you can listen to it. You can binge listen to all of them at the same time. And then really start to understand the steps that it takes to get yourself to that intuitive frequency.

Rita Black: Wonderful. And so we will have the links for that in the show notes so that you can grab that. And what a great time of year, I mean, as we're recording this, this is towards the, we're heading right into the holiday season, so that'll be a great time to listen as you're driving around looking for Christmas presents or -

Nicole Tsong: Yeah. And I would say actually for navigating family, family relationships, like super important. Yeah. Like how do you use your intuition to handle challenge, you know, 'cause of that activated reaction, gosh, that comes up so much with all families. And so how can you learn to use your intuition to help yourself take a step back and then to actually have conversations that are really like connected and fun and meaningful and joyful and take out that stress piece, right. Because when you're really following your intuition, you can actually learn to de-stress a lot of what's happening in your old relationships, which is really what happens with family.

Rita Black: So true. And also, I could see how it'd be very helpful as, you know, we all spend towards the end of December thinking about what is this new year gonna bring? What choices am I gonna make about heading into the new year? What we're gonna do, what the shape of the new year is gonna bring? I could see using tuning into intuition incredibly helpful in that area as well.

Nicole Tsong: Yeah. And I would say that actually that's one of the key things I think is so cool about your intuition is that it starts to guide you to make the choices and the decisions that are really aligned with who you are. And then you can really actually start to know what your purpose is. And so to me, like a big source of suffering in, in life is that gap between you and your intuition and your purpose. And so when you can start to close that gap, it's like, oh, like I get to know, actually be in creation of my life rather than feeling like I'm just at the mercy of it. I'm just at the mercy of what other people have said I should be doing. But I actually know, and I not only know in general, but I know on that deep level sense of like, this is right for me. Like that to me is so rewarding and so fulfilling and exciting. And that's really what you would work on and start to get towards in the secret podcast.

Rita Black: I love it. Okay, well you guys go and grab that. Go and sign up. So it's just like a link there you can go into and you the little form and you sign up. Yep. Okay. Awesome.

Nicole Tsong: Sign up and then you just get it in your inbox.

Rita Black: Okay. Well I'm gonna go sign up and you guys too. It's going to be in the show notes. Well, thank you Nicole for coming on. I wish you a happy holiday season and a fabulous new year. I know if you guys are whoever's listening to this beyond there, but it will not be heading into 2024, but as we head into 2024, I love this. This is such a great gift to tune into our intuition. So thank you for coming on today. Really appreciate it. Thank you.

Nicole Tsong: Thank you for having me, Rita. What a joy. So fun.

Rita Black: Thank you so much, Nicole. It's always a joy to have you on the show. And please, please make sure you sign up for her secret podcast, the language of intuition. And remember the key and probably the only key to unlocking the door of the weight struggle is inside you. So keep listening and find it, and I will see you here next week.

Rita Black: Do you wanna dive deeper into the mindset of long-term weight release? Head on over to www.shiftweightmastery.com. That's www.shiftweightmastery.com, where you'll find numerous tools and resources to help you unlock your mind for permanent weight release tips, strategies, and more. And be sure to check the show notes to learn more about my book From Fat to Thin Thinking. Unlock Your Mind for Permanent Weight Loss.